Pathfinder 2e vs. Level Up Advanced 5E

Specifically, character creation. So, with Pathfinder 2e, we have the following steps:

1. Concept
2. Start Building Ability Scores
3. Ancestry (race)
1. Select Heritage
2. Select Ancestry Feat
4. Background
5. Class
6. Determine Ability Scores
7. Record Class Details
8. Buy Equipment
9. Calculate Modifiers

It is interesting the ability scores are split into three steps, start, determine, and modifiers. But when I got the feeling that Pathfinder 2e characters had that disconnected from the world "floaty" quality to them, I wanted to know why I felt that. You know the feeling, this is the same one where you generate an OSR or 5E rogue, walk them into a generic fantasy town, and wonder, "now what?" You have no connection to this place or the larger world, and you are the stereotypical "adventurer as wanderer" trope.

Ancestry is a mix of physiological race and heritage, like the OSR sub-types of races. You are an elf, but are you a dark elf or a woodland elf? Heritage gives you an ability, and you get a choice of a unique ancestry feat to specialize.

Background in this case helps, but it feels elementary. These are essentially jobs. Were you a barkeep or acrobat? You get two ability score increases, two skills, and a feat. Then we pick our class, and things go on like normal for the rest of the generation process.

Level Up Advanced 5E

Let's hop over to Level Up Advanced 5E. This game had the benefit of being designed after Pathfinder 2e, so it takes those lessons and extends them into something interesting. Let's look at our steps:

1. Heritage (race)
1. Select Gift
2. Culture
3. Background
4. Destiny
5. Class
6. Determine Ability Scores
7. Calculate Modifiers
8. Buy Equipment

Heritage in Level Up gives you a choice of gifts, such as does your Dragonborn have wings or tough scales? There are no racial feats or feat lines that improve as you level up. The gift does morph into an advanced form at level 10, where your wings provide full flight and can carry a heavy load. The lack of feats here does not bother me since, in 5E, we are deemphasizing feats and doing broader "more roleplaying" character abilities instead.

Custom Heritages

Since these gifts are pretty broad and varied, it feels like you could make up your own and get the narrator's approval for your unique gifts, such as a Dragonborn with a "shadow dragon" origin having stealth proficiency and a limited shadow form (phase step through objects for fatigue, and full shadow walk at level 10 ). I like the less-tied-to-rules gives in Level Up better than the mechanically complex races of PF 2e, since I do not need to design feat trees and balance feats - I can just come up with something and make it like something else, and I have a new heritage sub-type right there on the spot. PF 2e can feel too tight and limiting and way too tied to the rules. With Level Up, I have a brand new Dragonborn heritage sub-type, something I just came up with, and it is good to go without too much game design and charting.

A Dragonborn with base 5E? That Charlie Brown "bag of rocks." You get some ability score improvements, a breath weapon, and damage resistance. And that's it, no culture or background (that OSR floaty feeling again). I know in One D&D, this is changing a little for the better, but some changes (such as them taking away options for dwarves) are being taken away and feel regressive. In Level Up, do you want to play an Ice Dwarf? Go to town, design a gift, devise a paragon form, and run it by the narrator.

Cultures

Level Up then gives you a choice of the culture you grew up in. I am an orc who grew up in a high-elven community. I am a Dragonborn who grew up with dwarves. I am a human wanderer. I am a gnome who grew up with shadow elves. You typically get skills, one expertise dice, and languages from this choice, but it is very cool. This is not PF 2e's "job choice" - this is a mechanical step that ties directly into your character backstory and gives you benefits on your character sheet. This is also very multicultural and can show how different societies can integrate and learn to come and live together.

And if you want, come up with a custom culture. This is not so tightly tied to rules like PF 2e that you can't really come up with your own stuff, and you are forced to buy more books for options.

Instead of telling you to be more inclusive, this game writes it in as mechanical benefits and challenges you to come up with the story. You can have bad-guy factions that are exclusive, too, as this is your world and your choice, but this step also serves to "place you on the map." I looked at my Nerrath map of the Nentir Vale, and when I made characters, I could instantly place them in the various towns, factions, and places around the map as their homes.

I do not get this in 5E, PF 2e, or the OSR.

Background

After this, we get the "job" part, which is made all the better by the previous step. My tiefling character is a villager who became a town guard. I placed her in Winterhaven. With PF 2e, we get the job selection but no culture, and I get that floaty and incomplete feeling like my character is tied to nowhere on the map. I would say, tiefling plus guard, and never knew where she grew up unless I wrote that in character story (and got no benefits).

In 5E, forget it, she is a tiefling fighter, and you get nothing for your backstory. Pathfinder 2e does a good job here and gives you this option, but I get the feeling the missing "culture" part hurts the game a lot and gives me that floaty and disconnected feeling.

And again, the backgrounds here are mechanically simple, if you want to come up with your own, you can, and you aren't breaking the rules with creativity.

Another cool feature is that in every background, they tie you further to the world, listing "adventures and advancement" that may come up during your adventures, such as my tiefling's town guard calling her back for special missions or helping them with a brutal monster. There are also random charts to help you create a break from your past job or other types of connections to them if you want ideas.

Level Up is forcing me to look at my sandbox map, pick a home for my character, decide who they are, how they grew up, and what they did there. Every choice I make in my backstory is reflected on my character sheet as a bonus or mechanical rule.

So Many are Wrong...

I see reviews that paint Level Up as a "complicated 5E version" or a "5E version of Pathfinder 2e," which are entirely wrong. Or adding unneeded complexity. Or fault the game for being character incompatible with the base 5E rules.

Um, no, those are wrong.

This is an entirely different game with an entirely different direction entirely. Yes, the mechanics, rules, and numerical scale is 5E compatible - but this is where the comparisons stop. This is a game where you can have a "living backstory" that is mechanically reflected on your character sheet.

Pathfinder 2e is a tabletop wargame with many "snap together" options. It is not as concerned with backstory as Level Up, nor does it matter compared to the action on the tabletop. The tabletop action in Pathfinder is fantastic.

Base 5E is like Basic D&D in comparison, as it is fundamental and straightforward. Culture and background do not matter. Just roll me a dwarf fighter and get me in the dungeon! Sometimes, that is all we want, and it is excellent.

Level Up takes your character backstory and codifies that into rules on your character sheet, and leaves you a lot of room for customization and unique roles within a class. I have never seen a game do this so well, and for it to be 5E compatible and work so well with D&D 4E concepts is a real treat.

Level up mixes the OSR pillars - exploration, social, and combat -  with backstory as mechanics.

It is not PF 2e or 5E at all.

It is a unique game with an entirely different direction.

Yes, they redesigned a lot of 5E. But this was done for a reason. So they could make that character story matter and that OSR-like exploration game work.