Level Up Advanced 5E: Design

Does Level Up Advanced 5E exist in this strange space between 5E and Pathfinder 2e?

Yes and no.

Yes, the rethink of race and background is similar to Pathfinder 2e.

No, in that the game is still 5E-centric.

As a result, you get people in the 5E circles used to their builds and options who don't want to try anything new. And you get Pathfinder 2e fans who do not see the need for anything else. The game exists in a difficult place and is targeted at long-term 5E players who want a heavily rebalanced and deeper set of rules that offer depth and variety to combat.

Me? Hey, I played Aftermath and Rolemaster. I like the extra depth and options.

The more I read this game and get introduced to 5E concepts, the more I see the 5E design ethos. I see a lot of subconscious demands of the rules, where definite bonuses must be laid out for every option. For example, if you have a villager background, you are proficient with improvised weapons.

If I make a choice, then I get something for it.

This is a very modern look at rules, and this is not really the case in the OSR. In an OSR game, if you choose "elf" as your race and your character comes across elven runes - there is no rule that says you can read them, but the referee will make a decision, and the game will move on. You may be able to read them perfectly, they may be ancient or vague, or you may just not - it depends.

This is why a lot of modern games, such as Pathfinder 2e and D&D 5E, are huge - for every option they give you, a lot of rules need to be written. Pathfinder 2E, I could not deal with all the cross-linked hash-tagged powers and effects and the constant pachinko machine of reference that went on every time someone used anything larger than a basic attack in combat. My brain does not think like that, Pathfinder 2e; sorry, I had to box you up.

With 5E, we have a game of lists. A list of ability scores. Lists of saving throw modifiers. Lists of skills. Lists of proficiencies. Lists of special abilities. Lists of powers. Lists of tools. Lists of class features. Lists, lists, lists!

Your skill in playing the game relies on three things:

• How organized and quickly you can reference lists
• How you build your lists and rules knowledge
• What list items apply to the current situation

Contrast that with Castles & Crusades, a game that mindfully throws lists in the bin and tells players, "We do not need all these lists to have fun!" D&D 5 has this design stuck in the mid-1990s that is a little retro, but more complicated than it needs to be. It does remind me of the Palladium RPG in a strange way, as that game had these huge skill lists to scan down whenever a situation came up and your first thought was, "Do I have the skill to handle this?"

So the real difference between D&D 5E and Level Up 5E is the latter has more list options and different rules for putting your lists together. It adds a new list, combat maneuvers, and a pool of exertion points used to activate them.

Again, if you understand the OSR, you can understand how lists of skills, class abilities, powers, and special features can handcuff your thinking. Modern games teach players to "scan lists for what applies," while OSR games teach players, "think first, lists later." I have had players immediately look at their character sheets when a situation came up, and then blankly stared at me when their sheets did not handle that situation.

I kid you not.

I would be kind of sitting there as the DM, giving them a silent nod, telling them non-verbally to, "do something, do anything!" Once they got into the style of play, they loosened up, but a few could never leave the confines of "the cave of the character sheet" mentality that some games put you in.

Honestly, I like the Level Up game better than the base 5E game. There is more to read, put together, and do. The box of Legos is bigger and more fun to build things with, but is also self-contained and focused. The cheese builds that people get angry about having taken away from them are gone. I can focus on the world and story again instead of "what builds to avoid."

A baselined game like this is fun because it puts the focus back on storytelling.

Then again, plenty of OSR games are focused on storytelling even more than this, and get out of the way a lot better so your story can be more important than the rules. It sounds like I am souring on Level Up, but I am not - if I want this tight, rules-based play, the game is perfect. This is my 5E game of choice since the game is self-contained, does not need expansions to make it interesting, and gives me more in a tighter package. It is a collection of the best concepts and advancements in 5E over the last 10 years without needing to buy and sort through a shelve of books and learn all of the "creeping rules advancements" of 5E circa 2014-2022.

The OSR is far better for stories since it stays out of the way and provides the bare minimum of rules to get the job done. The 5E style of game is the fun of playing, and for those who enjoy the play of rules and builds.

Level Up is all my 5E is in one place, in a core set of books, with all the best parts distilled into one tight game.