Okay, here we go. Prepare for impact.
I love Pathfinder 1e, one of my all-time legendary games. No question the entire game is a masterpiece. It fixes many of the 3.5E problems. The design is solid. The expansions are legendary. The volume of work, to this day, beats any edition of the game.
I love Pathfinder 1e.
Is it an S-Tier game.
Hands down.
But the game has problems, in fact, it inherits all the 3.5E ones and adds its own. There are a lot of "gimme" powers, like the force missile (and other similar 3 + INT mod per day) shootee-powers that all wizard schools got, which were the precursors of today's cantrips. In 3.5E, the wizard is closer to the AD&D 2e wizard, and you get no "laser pistol" like you do in Pathfinder or 5E - your memorized spells are it.
Yes, that means in 3.5E, wizards are back to slings, hand crossbows, or buying wands of magic missiles, but that is spending money and thinking cleverly at the low levels. This is old-school and cool; it isn't a problem. Also, you are spending money, which is good. Too many modern games have nothing to do with money, and it is useless as a concept.
The hit dice are too high in Pathfinder 1e. I like the classes with the d4 hit die, and that feels like D&D to me. Damages are higher in Pathfinder 1e than in D&D 3.5E.
Pathfinder 1e also has the Golarion new-car scent all over the game, and it is hard to break it apart. It heavily leans into the imagery of Golarion, with the football-headed goblins and Paizo tropes, and I can't get away from that flavor. Pathfinder makes the same mistakes D&D 4 did, as it heavily leans into product identity and owned IP. Pathfinder and D&D 4E do not feel like generic fantasy games.
Some of the cutesy tropes in Pathfinder changed the world. Goblins are not enemies anymore since they are so iconic to the world and setting. You make the art appealing and endearing, and the entire game slides down into relativism, making every monster your best buddy and pal. Evil doesn't want its own space, and any land given will be used as a base to attack others. They want to sack, desecrate, and burn down everything that doesn't worship the horned devil.
Why?
The horned devil says so.
The line between good and evil was obvious in D&D 3.5E. There were no "story game" mechanics tracking corruption (Rise of the Runelords, later, Pathfinder Horror Adventures) that gave you an excuse for why your character did something evil. In D&D 3.5E, if your character did something evil, it was 100% player choice, and you lived with the consequences. I was shocked when I realized how stark the choices are in D&D 3.5E versus Pathfinder "padding" your choices with "uh-oh!" style rules.
In Pathfinder, the line between good and evil is blurred, and in Pathfinder 2E, there is no line. the evolution of tieflings from being half-demon blooded dhampirs who fought against demonic urges to pastel-skinned cosplay costume horn and tail options to use with a Russian accent - and this tells you everything you need to know about modern performative, influencer-friendly gaming.
Today's games are Fortnite-inspired dress-up pop-culture tripe. We left story gaming a while ago; it is all cosplay adventures. It might as well be the "banana guy" in the dungeon.
D&D 3.5E felt more generic and usable for any fantasy world.
Pathfinder 1e was written for Golarion.
The classic D&D 3.0 Deities and Demigods book had 40 pages devoted to the D&D pantheon. Another 100 pages were devoted to classic pantheons, such as the Greeks, Egyptians, and Asgardians. Most of today's DDG-style books focus exclusively on the "Licensed IP" deities, and Pathfinder does that, too.
Generic fantasy gaming feels like it died with D&D 3.5. Past this point, you either had to go to the OSR, or ignore huge parts of Pathfinder, D&D 4, and D&D 5 just to get what we had back then.
A nice 3.5E SRD can serve as a generic set of fantasy rules for any world, and it makes consistent sense while preserving a lot of the old-school assumptions of magic, classes, and how a fantasy world works. A 3.5 SRD does not have the "owned IP" of Wizards and Paizo and feels genre-neutral.
We need a Creative Commons 3.5E SRD, and that would go the next step into fixing the damage done to the community. I hope this happens, and I am ready to mend those bridges.
Besides, if I were running Wizards, there would be a drop down of "what edition do you want to play" on D&D Beyond, and it would be an inclusive, for every fan place - zero-edition all the way to 5.5E. The company needs to get out of "owning rules" and deeply into the "social network" part of the hobby, and this is where there is money to be made. Same maps and figures, same micro-transactions, the rules are just the backend parts you swap out for your favorite version.
Wizards, please, Creative Commons all your edition SRDs. This is the only way to force yourself to move forward. Holding onto these will force you into "old think" and keep you from realizing the dream of creating a space where everyone can play, no matter what edition they prefer.
You won't make money selling books.
You will make money being the place to play them.
D&D 3.5E feels closer to AD&D than it does 4E or 5E. Pathfinder 1e feels closer to D&D 4E and 5E. There was a point there in the 2010s where things moved away from the old-school, and embraced the Internet and social networking. The games embraced identity. The old-school assumptions were cast aside. You saw this even in the creation of the OSR at this time, D&D 3.5E could hold its own against the OSR, and you didn't need older editions. When Pathfinder 1e came along, the same rules felt and played like something modern and slick. This was the fork in the road that created the split between modern gaming and the OSR.
D&D 3.5E is the last of the old-school games. I still criticize it for the scaling-hit points, but that trend started in AD&D 2nd Edition. It is also heavily inspired by MtG, but not to the point where character builds take over the game. Since you don't get "heaps of special abilities" when you multiclass, it isn't as beneficial as in Pathfinder or D&D 5.
If you do multiclass, you are likely working towards a prestige class, which was mostly done away with for the most part in Pathfinder and all versions of D&D after this. Prestige classes are fantastic, and they give you something to work towards. I miss these. In new games, they constantly make "new classes," and you have nothing to work toward. The prestige classes in 3.5E are still amazing; you have a laundry list of prerequisites to fill, and once you do, you can start leveling up a new excellent class.
Parts of 3.5E are hilariously anarchistic and silly, like the "use rope" skill (that had a synergy with the climb skill) or how there is no "acrobatics" skill, and it is split into "jump, tumble, and balance." But these quirks make the game endearing. Skills have synergies! There is no penalty for unskilled use; it just defaults to your ability modifier. Some skills disallow unskilled use. You get a lot of skill points and can customize deeply.
In fact, these skills are very narrowly defined and apply to specific dungeon situations. I could see a wizard buying a few points of the balance skill (not a class skill for them), especially if dungeons have parts like shimmying along cliffs or narrow ledges. I can't see a wizard in modern games buying "acrobatics," a terrible skill with an awful name. Acrobatics sounds like my character will jump through flaming hoops in a circus. Pathfinder 1e adopted the acrobatics skill and piled jump, balance, and tumble under it - and it was a terrible decision.
D&D 3.5E skills were designed with the dungeon in mind.
Pathfinder 1e was designed as a generic RPG ruleset.
Skills' quirky and clunky nature is a charm of the system, not a problem that needs to be fixed and streamlined. Sometimes I feel the "acrobat" skill in newer games gets ignored, whereas here, having three different parts to improve means you will use them - or decide a few parts aren't for you, so you will pass on them. Plus, "use rope" is so stupidly nerdy and geeky that it has a charm of its own.
Pathfinder 1e was designed to sell "adventure paths," which were the beginning of "story gaming." Thus, the skills had to be more like a generic game to cover all the situations in the paths. D&D 3.5E was designed as a tabletop miniatures game, with skills and abilities that laser-focus on dungeon crawling. In D&D 3.5E, the story was equally the reasoning for the dungeon and the stories the players wrote through play. In Pathfinder, the story was primarily a sales vehicle for adventures.
I can play D&D 3.5E without a story and just as a dungeon crawler. Oh, you need to make a balance check for these squares to pass! D&D 3.5E was designed for a younger audience as a board game.
With Pathfinder, I can, too, but the game is designed for story gaming and leaned into mature themes to sell itself as such (and, in many cases, pulled them back from 3.5E).
Pathfinder 2E, ironically, abandoned the mature themes and returned to being a board game.
Story gaming is not dungeon crawling. I can play story gaming with any rules-light game and have a better time. True dungeon crawling is a board game.
Pathfinder has a lot of flashy, beautiful art. This was the game to play in the 2010s. It did a lot of things right. But it changes a lot, and it introduces a lot of modern mechanics. The game exists because Wizards made mistakes and abandoned a good thing. Pathfinder and D&D 5 feel closer to ARPGs and MMOs than the tabletop gaming I grew up with. Pathfinder 2 went its own way.
Pathfinder 2 also has this corporate aesthetic, a definite look and feel, and it is warping into an extreme style today, almost entirely stylized and overly careful and in some ways, oddly pedestrian with a softer feel. Pathfinder 1e had an edge to it.
D&D 3.5E has a unique style, stylized but classic in some ways. I liked the "lost tomes of knowledge" feeling, like the books were a part of the world you were playing in. Parts of the art were sketchy, like the books were created by adventurers or wizards, and informing you on how to survive in this world.
But more than presentation, playing D&D 3.5E felt like you were navigating through rules, class progression, levels, stories, and the world. When you got to a prestige class, it was the feeling of arriving to a new land after a long voyage. The books as tomes of knowledge helped reinforce the concept, and they were a part of the game.
No, it isn't better. Both games are products of their times. But D&D 3.5E is completely different than Pathfinder 1e. Calling Pathfinder 1e "D&D 3.75E" is a false statement, since Pathfinder embraces modern design theories, which you see advanced in Pathfinder 2E.
Also, D&D 3.5E feels more like Greyhawk and the Forgotten Realms to me than D&D 4 or 5E ever will, or for that matter, Pathfinder 1e. This is the world's "home system," and this is when all the new content for these worlds stopped. The world books, gazetteers, and guides all stopped here - and there is a reason for that. Modern designs need to do specific worlds better, while 3.5E's design, especially with prestige classes, could see you working towards taking a particular job or role in the world as part of your progression. I can buy a book covering a part of the world and find new prestige classes in there.
In 5E? Every character multi-classes and combos these generic base classes, and you don't work towards anything except more damage and greater power.
But 3.5E exists as a system that was "taken away from us."
Pathfinder 1e was a reimagining with a modern style and art, and it was not the same thing. A lot of the rules were SRD clones, but going back and reading 3.5E again, I can say PF was a different game entirely built out of the same parts with a few upgrades and designed for a specific setting and story gaming.
We have never had anything like 3.5E since.
While D&D 3.5E and Pathfinder 1e are almost the same game, there are two key areas of difference.
Design and tone.
One is a story game that sells a world and adventure paths and begins the slide into identity gaming.
The other is a dungeon game meant to be played with miniatures, which preserves the old-school tone.
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