YouTube drives what is popular, and since "channel survival" is the influencer's bread and butter, you are seeing one after the other praise D&D 2024 and tell people to buy the books.
Those walking away are heading to other games, not Indie 5E systems.
Level Up Advanced 5E and Tales of the Valiant feel like they are getting left in the dust as influencers either praise D&D 2024 or create rage-bait scandal videos about Wizards of the Coast. Those get the clicks and drive the views.
Shadowdark is not in the Indie 5E space; that is more of an OSR game. This is sort of "the first game people walk away from," and then they stay there or move on to other systems and hobbies.
I like Indie 5E. But is it worth the time to play? I enjoy it, but there is a point when it is "whizzing in the wind" against a crowd of influencers who won't stop praising Wall Street IP. I have stopped watching them, their build-theory videos, their scandal of the weeks, and their endless grift. Even if you like watching them, how can you praise the art direction of 2024 D&D? Most of it is atrocious, just strange, AI-looking, rubber-expressions, and too happy tripe. The art in 2024 D&D just takes me out of the experience.
There are other super-progressive games with art I love, and they know better than to rip you out of the experience. Cypher System is one. The art in that game is the same inclusive and progressive style, but they know how to make it fit the game and theme, making me want to play. Their Numenera game also does a lot of things right, art-wise.
This is not a question of politics and culture; it is a question of "stop making my eyes bleed."
D&D 2024 is poisoning the well for all of 5E. The game leans so hard into identity marketing tropes that an entire generation is walking away from 5E entirely - and the 5E clones. Those who hang out on D&D Beyond and just want "the system data" and never open a book are fine. The art isn't even progressive; I am okay with that; this is cringy Wall Street suits trying to create a subculture.
D&D 2024 isn't punk rock or underground music but radio-friendly, formulaic, soulless corporate rock.
You can tell by the over-reliance on nostalgia.
If you like the 5E clones, great! You shouldn't let others tell you what you should like. But I have better games than 5E. You need to step back and ask yourself why you like this? What about the 5E framework do I want for dungeon crawling? Fantasy simulation? Immersion? Random systems? Character sheet simplicity? Character creation speed? The waste paper used for printing character sheets? Treasure? Monsters? Classic fantasy feeling?
The only category that 5E wins at are character builds due to a combination of subclasses and multiclassing. But that is just for d20 games. If I put GURPS into the competition, all of them are blown out of the water. Once you master GURPS character builds, there is no going back.
5E is game designers telling you what fantasy is.
GURPS is you being the author.
When I play 5E, I am "waiting for the next level and the next option." With GURPS, I am saving character points for that next cool thing. There are classes in 5E that "die for a few levels" and get very boring to play, and you have enough "look ahead" to know "nothing fun is coming soon."
It hurts. I like my Indie 5E games. I have fun with them. But there are OSR games that do the same thing: they are easier, better, and have far more options and fun moments. Dungeon Crawl Classics is amazing; with so many tables, even if you play solo, you have yet to learn what will happen next. If I put ToV, A5E, GURPS, and DCC on my shelves - the latter two will win my playtime every time.
GURPS is my ultimate character builder. If I am going to spend time using a computer to create a character, GURPS will win that battle every time.
DCC is pure "fun in a box."
Even though DCC does not have the character-building flex of GURPS, enough random stuff happens that it becomes emergent gameplay. GURPS lacks that random factor where "stuff happens," and your character changes (or dies).
Now, I play solo. If I were to factor in "playing with others," - that is when 5E-like systems become essential. So many know that it is easier to find people. But for that, I have Shadowdark. If I had to do the "5E thing," I would enjoy playing Shadowdark more than I do Indie 5E, and so many others do, too, so I am confident I could put together a group and play a more old-school game.
I enjoy the old-school more than the 5E brand of superhero fantasy.
Shadowdark does everything from Dark Sun to Sci-Fi. There are plenty of rules options, and the game is far easier to "mod" into the 5E experience you are looking for; even high-fantasy, power fantasy and pulp options are available. Modding ToV, D&D, or A5E is far more complicated. Shadowdark wins in modding and simplicity.
Shadowdark is another game with fantastic, top-notch art that keeps you immersed. The art fits the genre and doesn't try to "put you in the game."
If you are swearing off D&D and still want to find 5E groups easily, Shadowdark is the place to go. With Indie 5E, it is much harder to get 5E players to buy in since D&D Beyond is the mainstream 5E market, with YouTube and that crowd of influencers supporting them.
I love my ToV books.
My A5E books are great.
But it is a struggle, especially with Shadowdark, GURPS, and DCC being so compelling.
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