5E: Doing the Math

AI Art by @nightcafestudio

The average goblin in 5E is as follows:

• AC 15
• 7 hp
• +5 to-hit for 1d6+2
• Bonus Action: Disengage or Hide

In A5E:

• AC 13
• 10 hp
• +3 to-hit for 1d6+1
• Bonus Action: Disengage or Hide

In Old School Essentials:

• AC 13
• 3 hp
• +0 to-hit for 1d6
• -1 to-hit in sunlight

In Castles & Crusades:

• AC 15
• 3 hp
• +1 to-hit for 1d6
• 20' move

For reference, let's use a longsword with a +2 modifier, which does 1d8+2 in all of the above systems.

Generally, 5E doubles the hit-point scale of B/X and keeps damages roughly the same. They make up for this in bonus action attacks, multi-attacks, and caster cantrips. Even among 5E versions, you see tweaks; some 5E versions feature many bonus action attacks, so they tweak the hit points and AC to even things out. Base 5E goblins are tougher to hit but can go down in a solid damage roll. A5E goblins are meant to stay around for two turns but are easier to hit (more per-roll satisfaction for more prolonged combats).

B/X and C&C? Goblins die quickly, more so in OSE. C&C does make them slower than most parties, which allows the unencumbered to out-move them (and run away).

5E = more attacks per turn for less damage.

B/X = fewer attacks per turn for more damage.

Part of the 5E "secret sauce" relies on raising the hit points of monsters, raising the AC and to-hit modifiers, and making the average turn more complicated through multiple attacks, bonus action attacks, and lots of "false choices" per turn. Your damage rolls at low-level, compared to B/X, are relatively the same, such as a d8+2 for a longsword.

I would rather be a fighter in OSE than 5E and one-shotting those goblins in a single hit on an AC 13. With a +2 damage modifier, there is no way they survive one hit. In 5E or A5E, they stick around to do damage and cause trouble.

5E "keeps you busy" with lots of turn make-work. Your damage output is lower, but you have more choices per turn. They are ultimately false choices since if your damage was greater, you would not need to do all those bonus actions and "extra turn thinking." Also, 5E raises monster hit points since there are typically fewer creatures per fight than in B/X or C&C; since everything is so much more complicated in 5E on a per-turn basis, the rules are designed for "less is more."

In B/X, since the monster hit points are low, you are more potent than in 5E.

When you level up in 5E, you feel more powerful than B/X but are still weaker since the scale of monster hit points goes up on an exponential curve. You also get overloaded with everything you must do during a turn to keep that damage output high.

As you level up, you start stacking extra attacks and damage on your turn actions, and the monster hit points start scaling to keep up. In B/X, they do not, and the hit point scale is linear; 6 HD is 6d8 hit points. So our goblins in 5E have the hit points of 2 HD creatures in B/X.

I have been playing 5E lately, and the amount of things I must do to keep a character's damage output high is about twice what I need to do in B/X. More decisions per turn, keeping track of those bonus actions, and managing more resources and choices per turn.

C&C and OSE are two very different games at higher levels. OSE sticks closer to the B/X damage scaling, whereas C&C resembles a mix of the tougher AD&D 2E and 3.5E creature hit points.

• OSE Ancient Red Dragon = 13 HD (59 hp avg), AC 20
• C&C Ancient Red Dragon = 34 HD (221 hp avg), AC 32
• A5E Ancient Red Dragon = 23 HD (448 hp), AC 22
• 5E Ancient Red Dragon = 28 HD (546 hp), AC 22

As you level in C&C, they start adding more secret sauce damage and hit bonuses, so the game is more like modern games (5E, PF1, PF2, 3.5E) than many people give it credit for. It does the whole "secret sauce" thing but keeps the hit-point scale regular at low levels. C&C is like a mix of B/X and 5E.

Also note your attack modifiers in C&C can scale to epic levels, whereas in OSE, they are kept to the B/X limits. This is important to remember when converting content.

So yes, your power level with that 1d8+2 longsword in OSE stays higher than in any other games discussed here. Before 5E's bounded accuracy, there was B/X math, which is still superior in balance. One hp of damage in B/X means 10 times more than in 5E and holds its value much longer.

Note that in C&C, casters do not have "laser pistol" cantrips where they can shoot every turn. Cantrips are minor effects and are spent when cast. There are no short rests in C&C. So the casters are more like traditional B/X casters in a lower-magic setting and must rely more on darts (1d3, 20/40/60') as their ranged weapon attack. Also note that ranged weapon damage is not modified by DEX in C&C, and only STR modifies melee damage.

In C&C, this is what wands of magic missiles are for. That "laser pistol" style attack is something you buy or find and pay to keep charged up. One of the problems with 5E's "personal power" mentality is that it makes magic items and gear builds less critical. Gold matters in C&C and old-school games, especially if magic items are for sale. A party could blow through half a million in gold easily.

Shocking, I know, especially coming from 5E, where gold gets worthless.

If I want more melee or ranged options for my mage in C&C I will multiclass (or class and a half it). The base mage is kept very focused in design for a reason. C&C is a game where you multiclass the heck out of your characters to get precisely what you want. In 5E, you are limited to subclassing, and multiclassing adds more complexity than it should (with subclassing the multiclass).

There are some character types in C&C I just can't build in 5E, and the game would never be able to handle. The old-school multiclassing in C&C is unique, so the game's base classes are streamlined.

Oh, and in C&C, the multi-class options are fantastic. If I pay the XP, I can have a character with all the powers of two classes at the maximum level. I can play a 24/24 ranger/mage to the maximum level and have both the full powers of a 24 mage and a 24 ranger. I will need around 8 million XP, but it can be done. A 24/12 class-and-a-half is a better option, and you ask if your character is more ranger or mage and go.

Epic-level C&C characters are far more epic than 5E, easily. This is that old-school AD&D story stuff where characters have flying castles and armies of Djinns riding red dragons.

I find myself busier in 5E combat turns than in OSE or even C&C. Playing solo, a lot of choices need to be made for each character for 5E, and the turns take a while to play through. I see a lot of 3rd party material in 5E abusing the bonus action for extra damage, slipping in an extra attack, and doubling your damage output.

Even when playing B/X modules with 5E, I am cutting down the size of encounters considerably. OSE and C&C can handle large fights easily.