Tunnels and Trolls Deluxe: Missile Weapons

From the Deluxe Tunnels and Trolls Rulebook, page 78:

If the character aims for a particular target and makes the (to-hit) saving roll, then that damage will automatically take effect against the target when damage is assessed at the end of that combat round (even if the party loses the round). 

If your character misses the saving roll to hit, you still count the weapon damage toward the party’s overall HPT regardless of whether the PC party wins or loses overall.

Okay, so let's say my archer had +6 personal adds, and is using a 4d6 damage standard bow. I am fighting a MR 16 gremlin who rolls 2d6+8.

In a "party" of one. This applies to a party of two as well, but I am using a one-person "party" to highlight this rule.

So if I miss, my 4d6+6 attack is still counted in the my party's turn damage total (HPT)? Also, the word "still" implies if you hit, the damage applies to HPT on a successful to-hit.

Which means the damage applies, even on a failed to-hit SR.

Again, I use a one-person party to highlight the contradiction, but for two people this is an equally valid point because 4d6+6 is a lot of HPT contribution for a pair of adventurers.

Chaos Equals HPT?

There feels like a disconnect here for a rule intended for a 4-6 person party where the archer's contributions feel like they should be accounted for in the chaos of a large battle, hit or miss. With smaller parties or single archers, this rule feels like it short-circuits the missile weapons to-hit system. For solo adventures with a single archer (or even two people), this matters a lot.

Let's say in my fight with the gremlin that he rolls 3 + 1 + 8 = 12 and I roll 5 + 6 + 6 + 5 + 6 = 28 and I miss the to-hit SR. I beat him by 28 - 12 = 16 and the MR 16 gremlin dies, even though I missed? That can't just happen from the chaos of combat unless the little bugger got confused and ran off a cliff.

The Original 7/7.5 Rules

This is one place where I can say I am confused a little on this rule (and would love a clarification), and our group will likely be house-ruling this back to the 7/7.5 version where the following is said on page 97 of the rulebook:

Make a DEX SR (or perhaps a similar roll using your “Marksmanship” Talent or the like) to see if the missile hit. If you miss the SR, you get no points toward the melee total. If you make it, your points count no matter what.

Note there is no "single target damage" rule mentioned in 7/7.5 where missile damage (in combat against an active foe) goes straight to MR/CON and is reduced by armor, as it seems all missile damage goes straight to a side's HPT. In Deluxe, this rule is re-introduced as a benefit of making the to-hit SR (and aiming at a particular target), and it also means a successful hit also adds to the side's HPT (and is handled as a unique missile hit during step #9, not counting double because total melee damage is counted separately from missile and magic damage).

This is a key difference between the versions, in 7.5 the game is more focused on the HPT and not individual attacks. In 5.5 missile weapons are separate attacks apart from the HPT. In 8.0/Deluxe they try to go back to the 5.5 "single attack" feeling, but still want to keep the "missile weapons add to HPT" rule of 7.5, and I feel the game ends up a bit confused in this regard.

Consequences

There always is a consequence for a house-rule, isn't there? With the deluxe rules, I make my to-hit SR and roll damage. The gremlin rolls melee damage. These are compared. If I make my to-hit, magic and missile damage is applied first, and the gremlin dies as this is ruled as a "single target" hit - damage goes straight to MR and armor reduces.

In Deluxe, if I do not make my to-hit and miss, we go into HPT vs. HPT mode in step #10 (page 86). My total is higher anyways, and the gremlin jumps in front of the arrow and dies.

With the 7/7.5 rule, missiles must make the to-hit roll to contribute towards HPT. If I miss, the gremlin takes no damage, I take 2d6+8, and we go on to the next round of combat. If I hit, this goes into HPT versus HPT mode (with no single-target hit rule), and with my original rolls above, the gremlin dies.

Final Thoughts: 7/7.5 is Very Clear and Playable

I like the 7/7.5 missile weapon rules enough to house-rule these in as my preferred way of handling missile combat, over the structured and more-complex rules in Deluxe. Also, the single-target rule's reintroduction in 8.0 seems to have made the entire combat sequence less clear to me, and is apt to confuse players at my table. We like the 7.5 rules:

If you hit, you hit, and the missile damage goes towards the party's damage total.

If you miss, it doesn't.

There is no splitting magic, missile, and melee damage afterwards with single-target rules - all damage done (melee, missile, and magic) by one side adds to total party damage counted in the turn.

Simple.

The only drawback is you lose the "single-target damage" deadly (and almost simulation-like) effect with an archer supporting a melee, but then again, if I shoot an unaware monster it should go straight to MR anyways, so that effect is still in the game. Still, in melee, I can see adding to HPT and losing "single target damage" as a more realistic rule since the opposing HPT roll (reducing damage) simulates the monster "on defense" and trying to avoid getting shot. Out of melee when sniping, the "straight to MR" thing applies since there is no active defense, and the "single target" rule is not "lost" - it just doesn't apply in a melee with creatures aware of the archer.

Final-Final Thoughts: TrollBridge Thread

After I wrote this, I found this thread on the TrollBridge e-zine forum site:

http://trollbridge.proboards.com/thread/3352/missile-weapon-damage-deluxe

So yes, hit or miss, they add to HPT, and that seems to be the consensus there. It feels odd to disagree with the official ruling, but I can't wrap my head around "missing a shot" and still doing damage.

House Rule #1: Missile Weapons

On a successful to-hit SR, missile damage is added to the party's total. If the SR is missed, no points are added to the party's total. If the monster is unaware, out of combat, or defenseless, the damage goes straight to MR (or armor/CON) as normal.

The 7.5 era "hit for HPT, miss for nothing" missile weapon house-rule stands in our 8.0/Deluxe games, at least for our group and for my sanity. Damage-based magic is treated the same way, adding to HPT and not being considered separately.