Pathfinder 2e: Utterly Alien

AI Art by @nightcafestudio

I have mixed feelings about the Pathfinder update to a "2.5" version. I am happy with the 2.0 books and do not plan on buying the remasters. I miss the classic dragons, drow, and other fantasy staples - and the replacements feel like something entirely alien.

I get it; they need to be their own masters, be able to create video games and VTTs without worrying about Wizards, and do their own thing.

And I know, your table is your table - I get it.

It is hard to discuss feelings about the whole situation since the toxicity is very high everywhere, with the remaster dividing the community. People feel the classic dragons and fantasy standards would be a part of the game - and they still are - but they are not in the new books. And the community wants to stop player loss, so they lean into calling people who feel "I am losing something" as stupid and unreasonable (to silence them and prevent the feeling from taking hold), which drives people feeling this way away for good.

Here's a hint, if people in the community have fears and concerns - don't attack them or call them dumb.

Some places that were the best and most inviting in the Pathfinder community are mocking people with these feelings instead of discussing them and working things out. If that happened to me, I would walk from the game and community and never return. The books would get sold the same day. And I see it happening, and it is the moderator's fault for letting this go out of control. The community is losing people for good with every thread that turns into a flame fest.

Nothing much is changing, and you can still have everything as it was. Everything is fine. This is one of those rare cases of the game being okay but the narrative and community spinning wildly out of control.

If I were a third party producer?

Here comes the Kickstarter for Classic Monsters and Character Options for Pathfinder 2 Remastered!

Seriously people. That is an easy win. Easy. Somebody do that and END THIS.

Seriously.

They are chasing people out of the Pathfinder 2 community for good - for no good reason other than them wanting to win an argument and get likes. They should be leaving, not the good people we are losing.

And the fears are justified.

More fallout from Wizards and more reasons to never go back to them. They are still hurting communities months later. I also feel Paizo is being unreasonable by memory-holing so many familiar terms and fantasy standards. The game will be more challenging to transition into, and you will find more people sticking with one or the other instead of trying both.

It is a mess.

But on a more "look and feel" level, Pathfinder no longer feels familiar. I entered that world with 1e, and I like that edition's style and mature fantasy feeling. Pathfinder 2's art feels a bit too "pop" to me, with photobombs, selfies, Pokemon pets, and other Internet meme elements entering the art and style, with way too much steampunk standing in for modern technology.

I am too used to the pseudo-3.5E the original game started as, and I feel, "That was the promise to me." So, no, Pathfinder 2e's world, and even more so, the 2.5e world, does not feel the same. It is not a fantasy one anymore; this is steampunk. The lore is changing, too, from "generic fantasy" to "Paizo fantasy." I like the lore, but this limits the game's usefulness to me, in the same way using a Star Wars RPG would play in my own sci-fi settings. I will play generic fantasy with OSR games, C&C, or non-Wizards 5E.

The language of Pathfinder is changing too. What was familiar because of 3.5 is now a step removed in terminology. This is another barrier to entry for the rest of us used to things meaning commonly accepted meanings and having a product line with redefined words all over the place. The average consumer isn't going to be able to grasp that, and I know how easy it sounds - but things have failed to resonate with consumers for less than this.

They should have just gone with Creative Commons and the 5.1 SRD. The ORC license feels like it backed them into a corner, and they have to change the game too much.

At this point, I would be more excited about the setting if they mixed Starfinder and Pathfinder into one setting (and set of rules) and did an epic science-fantasy blend of the two. Make Starfinder optional, but combine the settings and rules. This way, you could do "magi-tech" instead of steampunk, and the game's technology would work the same way.

That would feel highly compelling and give the world purpose and reason.

Starfinder should be an optional setting expansion for Pathfinder 2.5 with no main rulebook but expansion books focusing on classes, tech, and powers. Unify the magic systems and rules. Import the ancestries' and backgrounds.

And the alien aspects of the new 2.5 world would feel right for a science-fantasy universe. Dungeon Crawl Classics pulls this off nicely, and they show you can have a science-fantasy world and still have it feel like fantasy.

Give me one game with one setting in one world - and the science-fantasy part as the optional expansion content. That would feel right to me and help me get over these feelings of things changing. You could have a modernized and clean Pathfinder 2.5 and a brand-new Starfinder under one roof and system. Everything could work and play together nicely, and we would have a bigger game and sandbox.

But otherwise, this is a dark time, and it is worsening.

I hope things get better in the Pathfinder community and they can work this out. The feelings and fears are valid. How the community addresses them is a considerable challenge; from what I see, they need to rise to the occasion.